Shutter lifetime?

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Shutter lifetime?

pprovaz
Hello,
just wanted to ask, if anyone there has any experience with shutter lifetime of normal compact cameras. I am planning to setup an automated 3D stereo time-lapse using two Canon Powershot SX100's, so just thinking how long could they operate until shutter failure...

Just heard, that when a classic DSLR with mirror is used, the lifetime is not very long. For example Canon 1000D takes 20000 shots average until the shutter fails (see other models at http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/canon_eos1000d.htm). That is only 208 days of 15 min. shooting, so it would be very expensive, to trash one such camera every 200 days ;).

So I hope, that some normal camera without mirrors will last significantly longer...


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Re: Shutter lifetime?

Mark Wagner-2
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 12:46 PM, pprovaz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello,
> just wanted to ask, if anyone there has any experience with shutter lifetime
> of normal compact cameras. I am planning to setup an automated 3D stereo
> time-lapse using two Canon Powershot SX100's, so just thinking how long
> could they operate until shutter failure...

It's just a single data point, but my SX100IS is still going after
more than a hundred thousand shots.  (My PowerShot A520 only lasted
about 80,000, but it wasn't the shutter that failed, it was the USB
connector.)

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Re: Shutter lifetime?

paalge
Hi

This is not about compact cameras, but slightly more expensive ones.

We've been running Nikon D7000 for many years, and the shutter is what breaks, but not before 200 000 - 300 000 images (2 times the amount Nikon says).
Now we've switched to the Sony a7s and we've taken more than a million images with it in silent mode (only using global electronic shutter).
In general I would recommend an electronic shutter if you want millions of images.


Kind regards
Pål Ellingsen
Post Doc in space physics (for the Birkeland Center for Space Science)
Dept. of Geophysics
The University Centre in Svalbard (UNIS)
P.O. Box 156
N-9171 Longyearbyen   
Svalbard
Norway

On 15 February 2017 at 02:16, Mark Wagner <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 12:46 PM, pprovaz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hello,
> just wanted to ask, if anyone there has any experience with shutter lifetime
> of normal compact cameras. I am planning to setup an automated 3D stereo
> time-lapse using two Canon Powershot SX100's, so just thinking how long
> could they operate until shutter failure...

It's just a single data point, but my SX100IS is still going after
more than a hundred thousand shots.  (My PowerShot A520 only lasted
about 80,000, but it wasn't the shutter that failed, it was the USB
connector.)

--
Mark

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Re: Shutter lifetime?

pprovaz
:) I'm not that rich to put spare A7s's in photobooths :)

Well, I am not sure what kind of a shutter is used in compacts like Canon Powershots, for example. If there is a mechanical one, or if it's based on electronical timing only. Has anybody a clue? Something is still heard during the shot, so there may be some moving part.

I think that you were extremely lucky with your D7000. There are no statistical data for this model yet, but when looking on the D5000 data here
http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/nikon_d5000.htm
.. the most usual lifetime is 10 000 to 20 000 shots only (= in average).

So for me (and also for most of the people out there), if there is a need for some camera to withstand several years of automated shooting for a reasonable price, the compacts are the only option. My Canon SX100 does surprisingly good and sharp job when looking at the image quality (mainly when a $20 price paid for it is taken into consideration)

I wish the gPhoto to be able to control Olympus micro4/3's soon (like E-PL1, E-PM1 or so), because they can be purchased for a few bucks these days, and the picture quality is quite nice for the purpose.


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Re: Shutter lifetime?

paalge
Hi

I understand that.
I don't really know what the compacts have, but they are probably not made to last that many shots.
You could use board level cameras instead (USB controlled cameras (similar to web-cams) but for taking pictures), but it depends on what you're after.


As for the D7000 we ran 4-5 cameras until they broke and all survived that amount of images.
I'm a bit sceptical to that way of measuring the lifetime, as using a camera by draging it around, in different climates, etc, is completely different to mounting it in a controlled room 
We run ours mounted in the same place and looking at the sky.

Cheers

Pål


On 15 February 2017 at 11:16, pprovaz <[hidden email]> wrote:
:) I'm not that rich to put spare A7s's in photobooths :)

Well, I am not sure what kind of a shutter is used in compacts like Canon
Powershots, for example. If there is a mechanical one, or if it's based on
electronical timing only. Has anybody a clue? Something is still heard
during the shot, so there may be some moving part.

I think that you were extremely lucky with your D7000. There are no
statistical data for this model yet, but when looking on the D5000 data here
http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/nikon_d5000.htm
.. the most usual lifetime is 10 000 to 20 000 shots only (= in average).

So for me (and also for most of the people out there), if there is a need
for some camera to withstand several years of automated shooting for a
reasonable price, the compacts are the only option. My Canon SX100 does
surprisingly good and sharp job when looking at the image quality (mainly
when a $20 price paid for it is taken into consideration)

I wish the gPhoto to be able to control Olympus micro4/3's soon (like E-PL1,
E-PM1 or so), because they can be purchased for a few bucks these days, and
the picture quality is quite nice for the purpose.






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Re: Shutter lifetime?

pprovaz
Ow, shooting the sky, I understand. You have to have a camera with the lowest noise at high ISO, the A7s is a good choice for that, according to snapsort.com server measurements (http://snapsort.com/explore/best-digital-cameras/2300-iso-low-light-48-months-recent). And high megapixels, of course.

For good night shots with Powershots I had to use the 15 sec shutter speed (firmware maximum) and raise the ISO virtually by multiple captures, then blend the images into one, for the lowest noise. But due to Earth rotational speed you probably cannot use that technique.

I would say all the USB webcams out there have far worse optics (noise and picture), than the cheapest compact camera, unfortunately. Cheap plastics lens, crappy noisy sensors. There are few exceptions, indeed, for ex. the latest Logitech webcams with a fine Carl Zeiss optics, but again, the price is 10 times higher than old Powershot SX100, and the noise/ISO level is unknown. So it's really a hard choice to find something reliable without spending hundreds $s.

On the other side - if the SX100 will break after 100 000 shots, I will replace it for another $20 piece quite happily ;)

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Re: Shutter lifetime?

Rogier Wolff
In reply to this post by paalge
On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 01:41:22PM +0100, Pål Gunnar Ellingsen wrote:
> Hi
>
> I understand that.
> I don't really know what the compacts have, but they are probably not made
> to last that many shots.

The thing is, that compacts are not MADE to last that many, but
because the shutter is a lot smaller, it does tend to last many times
longer than the bigger shutters on of medium end cameras.

Because its smaller, the forces and wear-and-tear are much less than
on the bigger shutters.

        Roger.

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Re: Shutter lifetime?

paalge
In reply to this post by pprovaz
Hi

It's for aurora physics. But high megapixel is not thing that matters that much, large pixels do though.

The Sony A7s is mostly for easy to understand images, for the science we've got other cameras which cost A LOT more than the a7s.

USB webcams can be good, you just need to buy them from the manufacturers,like for instance https://www.e-consystems.com/ (I've used one of their cameras on a project), and mount your own lenses

But if the sx100 is that good it sounds like a good choice.

Cheers

Pål

 


On 15 February 2017 at 13:09, pprovaz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ow, shooting the sky, I understand. You have to have a camera with the lowest
noise at high ISO, the A7s is a good choice for that, according to
snapsort.com server measurements
(http://snapsort.com/explore/best-digital-cameras/2300-iso-low-light-48-months-recent).
And high megapixels, of course.

For good night shots with Powershots I had to use the 15 sec shutter speed
(firmware maximum) and raise the ISO virtually by multiple captures, then
blend the images into one, for the lowest noise. But due to Earth rotational
speed you probably cannot use that technique.

I would say all the USB webcams out there have far worse optics (noise and
picture), than the cheapest compact camera, unfortunately. Cheap plastics
lens, crappy noisy sensors. There are few exceptions, indeed, for ex. the
latest Logitech webcams with a fine Carl Zeiss optics, but again, the price
is 10 times higher than old Powershot SX100, and the noise/ISO level is
unknown. So it's really a hard choice to find something reliable without
spending hundreds $s.

On the other side - if the SX100 will break after 100 000 shots, I will
replace it for another $20 piece quite happily ;)





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Re: Shutter lifetime?

Poul Jensen
In reply to this post by Rogier Wolff
On 2/15/2017 2:30 PM, Rogier Wolff wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 01:41:22PM +0100, Pål Gunnar Ellingsen wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I understand that.
>> I don't really know what the compacts have, but they are probably not made
>> to last that many shots.
> The thing is, that compacts are not MADE to last that many, but
> because the shutter is a lot smaller, it does tend to last many times
> longer than the bigger shutters on of medium end cameras.
>
> Because its smaller, the forces and wear-and-tear are much less than
> on the bigger shutters.
>
> Roger.
>
The "mechanical shutter" is actually just the aperture diaphragm closing
completely. Besides being smaller than DSLR shutters the operation is
completely different because it is not involved in controlling exposure
time (that is done by an electronic shutter). It can open/close much
slower, which I would guess is another important factor for its durability.

I used to shoot timelapse photography with Canon Powershots (S2, S3,
SX110), and they were fantastic for the purpose. Took hundreds of
thousands of shots and no failures, unlike my DSLRs (wore out several
shutters). Another reason is that they change exposure in 1/8EV steps
instead of 1/3EV steps that DSLRs (and other brands of compacts, I
believe) use, making it possible to shoot on automatic exposure settings
without getting extensive flicker.

All the best,
Poul Jensen
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